User:Bob Burton/Archived messages

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Finding old & low quality articles

Hello Bob, I saw you wrote

"With the bulk of the new contributions at a good standard I have been trying to hit 'Random pages' a few times a day to spot some of the earlier pages that either need deleting or rewriting. "

Maybe it would be better to check the following links

With these lists it is easier to spot pages that should be deleted or at least updated/revised. Bonzai 02:53, 5 Dec 2004 (EST)

Thanks Bonzai, good suggestion. Cheers --Bob Burton 03:28, 5 Dec 2004 (EST)

To answer your questions ...

  • The ruling to remove the feeding tube March 18, 2005, was made February 25, 2005. This was the second such ruling, with the first being in 2003. I have added that documentation into the article, as well as a number of other "lead in" dates and rulings (briefly), with appropriate document links.
  • There has to have been quite a bit back in 2003 when this issue first arose, as is revealed in Jeb Bush's EO and "Terri's Law", both of which were subsequently ruled unconstitutional.
  • There was, obviously, a lot more "local" coverage, that is in Florida, than national, I would say. But, honestly, I haven't really dug into the old stuff. the archives in the Miami Herald, Orlando Sentinel, and the St. Petersburg Times, should tell that story. Perhaps another chapter? The article page is maxed out right now and I will have to go back in tomorrow and tighten and tidy some more.
  • There is going to be another whole long, drawn out chapter after she passes, as well .. lot's of fallout on the horizon, I'm sure.

Artificial Intelligence 17:42, 25 Mar 2005 (EST)

archive file

I finished the ftbcci archive. I put it into one javascript menudriven dhtml webapplite idea i've been playing with. Check it out

here - 53k zip expands to 154k html - W3C validator ok'ed it, and compiles fine on my IE6.whatever and moz1.7.5

cheers --Hugh Manatee 15:33, 27 Mar 2005 (EST)


see the external resources section for most of the entries i made today...

another subpar entry

Hi Bob Article(rev. jesse paterson) is also very questionable + format and coherence are lacking... I didnt delete it, but it is very tempting. Kind rgds PaulR


Hi Bob A link was entered to a US Special Forces Solicitation for comic books... i know these folks clearout their files/edit. I suspect we should cache this somewhere... Here is the link PaulR


Hi, Bob

Richard Poe

Hi the entry for Richard Poe has some dubious elements, e.g., the very last sentence seems bunk to me. I am interested in researching this person, but the current entry is less than useful. Do you want me to edit this, or do you want to take a swing first? Kind rgds Antidotto

where to add

Hi Bob;

I want to add references by a generally spread newstory about the Sunni mullahs issuing a fatwa for folks to join the police/army... it turns out this is false, but it was generally reported in the US/UK media without correction once exposed as a sham. Juan Cole posted an item today that makes nonsense of that – so i suspect this is part of the propaganda campaign.

Now, i would like to enter this item, but am not sure where to put it. Before I enter a new page or so, do you have suggestions where this should go?

Kind rgds

ripe for deletion?

Hi Bob;

Can we delete this article ("To be")? Seems rather silly to me – esp. since someone has entered it as a link in a few places, e.g., top of "smear".

Kind rgds


>>PaulR - Tks for spotting that one. Need to spend some more time cleaning up some of those early pages. As a sysop you can delete those pages via the delete tab. Pages deleted can be retrieved if one of use goes to far or makes a mistake. cheers --Bob Burton 04:32, 6 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Retrieved from ""<<

Hi Bob; Yes, i know that they can be deleted, but i wondered if it was considered legit... Next thing you know is someone blames me for this or that deletion...

Also, i would like to know where you think discussion of the disinfo on Iraq may be added -- best location. I want to avoid proliferation of related materials into different articles...

Kind rgds



Hi Bob

Did you receive the article??

Kind rgds -PaulR

exxon funding thinktanks I thought you would be interested

Blunt Data Dump


MSNBC - Meet the Press - 2005.04.17 had Representative Roy Blunt, (R-Mo-Delay Apologist) on it.

Blunt Phillip Morris links

  • House Majority Whip Roy Blunt, is married to the chief legislative strategist for Altria Group, Inc., Philip Morris' megaparent.(2nd marriage, unsure if this was a trade-in by a Fundie-Christian hypocrite, or if he was a widower though) - divorce, 2nd marriage a little more that a year later. He's an adulterer according to fundie(inc fundie Baptists) tenet. although I wouldn't consider this relevant to SourceWatch's published stubs, it's just an observation.
Mathew 5
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
  • Andy Blunt, son of Roy is a Lobbyist in Missouri, and Philip Morris is a client of his
  • Matt Blunt, Missouri Gov, is another son of Roy who was aided in his election with a verry large influx of out of state campaign money:


Bob, sorry about the size, but i thought it might help to emphasise a question that has been on my mind; why isn't Blunt embroiled in ethics problems of his own? His excuses for himself and Delay is that everyone is doing it. This may be true, but not to the same extent in both frequency and quantity, besides it's just a variant on the tired and worn republican rationalisation, but billy did it first!. Are they all twelve years old?

Pamela Brogan, "Blunt denies conflict over lobbyist wife: Others say his votes, family connection don't mix, and Blunt should back off tobacco issues.", The Springfield News-Leader (MO)-Gannett News Service, March 30, 2004
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt, who wed a tobacco lobbyist in October, has not stepped aside from voting on tobacco legislation and continues to accept campaign donations from the industry.
House ethics rules are murky when it comes to lawmakers and their family ties to lobbyists. But critics say Blunt's marriage to the top lobbyist for Altria, the parent company of Philip Morris, and his decision not to recuse himself from tobacco matters creates at least the appearance of a conflict.
"I can't imagine how they could seriously think she can lobby (the House)," said Larry Noble, executive director of the Center for Responsive Politics, noting that the congressman is the House's third-ranking Republican leader.
Dawn Schneider, an Altria spokeswoman, said Abigail Blunt, the company's director of federal government affairs, is not lobbying "the Republican elected leadership in the House." That arrangement has been in place since the lobbyist and congressman were dating.
Under a company policy, Abigail Blunt can still lobby senators and other House members.
The decision by Rep. Blunt not to refrain from helping to shape tobacco bills or vote on them comes as Congress prepares to consider major legislation for the first time in years that could establish a new national tobacco policy. As a member of the House leadership, Blunt is part of the GOP's policy-making team.
Burson Taylor, a spokeswoman for Blunt, said the congressman has not removed himself from tobacco issues because he "has no financial interest" in tobacco legislation. "Mrs. Blunt does not stand to benefit from this bill," Taylor said. "It's important to know that congressman Blunt is not involved in any negotiations in the tobacco buyout bill."
[. . .]

Josh Flory, "Ascending the Hill: Roy Blunt watches from the wings as his son runs for governor of Missouri, but in Washington, he's on center stage, where the spotlight can shine hot.", The Columbia Daily Tribune (MO), May 9, 2004
[. . .]
After becoming DeLay’s deputy in 1999, he established a political action committee called the Rely On Your Beliefs Fund. The ROY B. Fund not only helps ensure a continued Republican majority in the House but also guarantees the gratitude of members - the same members who elect the House leadership.
According to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan research group that tracks money in politics, the ROY B. Fund contributed $39,667 to Republican Senate candidates in 2002 and another $591,762 to House candidates.
[. . .]
...not all the subplots in Blunt’s rise to power have been of the "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" variety. In June 2002, the congressman announced that he and his wife, Roseann, were separating after 35 years of marriage. Sixteen months later, Blunt married Abigail Perlman, a lobbyist for the parent company of Philip Morris.
Blunt declined to talk about what led to his divorce, saying it was a personal matter and was "unfortunate."
Besides causing personal pain, the turmoil has taken a political toll. Last summer, The Washington Post reported that only hours after Blunt assumed the whip’s job, he quietly tried to insert a provision benefiting Philip Morris into a bill creating a new Department of Homeland Security.
According to the Post, Blunt instructed aides to add the provision - it made it harder to sell tobacco products over the Internet and would have cracked down on the sale of contraband cigarettes - "even though no one else in leadership supported it or knew he was trying to squeeze it in."
Blunt said that the story was "largely misreported" and that DeLay "had agreed to do this before I ever got involved in it." He defended the cigarette measure as good policy, pointing out that the Senate passed a similar measure last year.
But the measure prompted a frenzy of negative publicity, and Missouri Democrats have hammered Blunt. They particularly targeted his relationship with Perlman and the fact that Blunt’s younger son, Andy, is a state government lobbyist who counts Philip Morris as a client.
State Democrats also have hastened to link Matt Blunt with the tobacco controversy. In January, after Matt Blunt officially announced his campaign for governor, the state Democratic Party issued a news release detailing the top 10 questions Blunt should answer and made a reference to Andy Blunt’s lobbying. Question No. 2 asked, "Now that your father, Congressman Roy Blunt, has married his girlfriend - also a tobacco lobbyist - does that make [sic] Phillip Morris your step-grandfather?"
Mike Kelley, a spokesman for the state Democratic Party, criticized both Blunts for their actions involving the tobacco industry. He said that as secretary of state, Matt Blunt initially rejected a Democratic initiative for a cigarette tax hike because sponsors didn’t gather enough signatures. A Cole County judge later reversed that ruling, and the cigarette tax was placed on the ballot.
[. . .]
Roy Blunt said he doesn’t vote on legislation that only affects the parent company of Philip Morris - a giant corporation that also owns Kraft Foods - and said questions that focus on his wife’s relationship with the company are "actually pretty sexist."
"What you’re really arguing is that no member of Congress’ wife should have a job doing anything that affects anything that Congress might have any action on," he said.

Roy Blunt's PAC, Rely on Your Beliefs, Contributions to Republican Federal Candidates, 2004 Cycle

  • Total to Republican House Candidates: $682,039
  • Total to Republican Senate Candidates: $18,000

Source: The Center For Responsive Politics

Sam Dealey, Rep. Blunt’s son aided by donors from out-of-state. The Hill, July 9, 2003
Campaign finance records show that Matt Blunt, the son of House Majority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), received significant contributions from out-of-state sources during his successful 2000 race for Missouri secretary of state.
Many of the contributors seemingly lacked a direct interest in the down-ballot state race but had significant interests pending before Matt Blunt’s father.
At the time that the contributions to his son’s campaign occurred, Roy Blunt was a rising GOP star and an aggressive fundraiser. After the elevation of J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) to Speaker in 1999, Blunt was named chief deputy whip.
He also won a seat on the powerful House Commerce Committee, with assignments on subcommittees with jurisdiction over finance and hazardous materials, oversight and investigations, and telecommunications, trade and consumer protection.
[. . .]
Matt Blunt won the race by a six-point margin, garnering 51 percent of the vote. He was the only Missouri Republican to win a statewide race in 2000.
Top executives at Freddie Mac, for example, contributed $4,000 to his campaign. On Nov. 6, 2000, Senior Vice President Gary Lanzara and Vice President Lelan Brendsel gave $1,000 each. Two weeks later, Freddie Mac lobbyist David Glenn and his wife, Cherie, also contributed $1,000 apiece. Cherie is listed as a homemaker; the couple reside in Great Falls, Va.
Contributions from telecommunications-related entities accounted for over $10,000.
Railway transportation companies also contributed more than $6,000 to Matt Blunt’s campaign. John Scruggs, a top lobbyist for Altria, formerly Phillip Morris, contributed $1,000. Other contributions came from companies and executives in - or representatives for - such heavily regulated industries as healthcare, insurance, chemicals and defense technology.
By far the biggest outside contributors to Matt Blunt’s campaign, however, were colleagues of Roy Blunt. Campaign finance documents show 84 House lawmakers made 95 contributions to the secretary of state campaign, totaling more than $65,000.

--Hugh Manatee 01:48, 23 Apr 2005 (EDT)


Hi Bob,

Can I draw your attention to my request to Sheldon to install the graphviz extension? I believe technical matters such as this are his department, but from an editorial point of view do you have any views or concerns? Regards, --Neoconned 11:52, 24 Apr 2005 (EDT)


Hi Bob, glad you like the idea. As regards (a), obviously I'm happy to contribute to such help pages. As regards (b), I'll be interested to see what you come up with! --Neoconned 21:02, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)

non-zero page rank :>)

Dear Bob, Sheldon,

I always enjoy being the bearer of happy news. So here it is: SourceWatch's page rank finally is non-zero again. It appears to be about 6 or 7 (depending on which estimate you believe). This must have happened in the last few days, since I last checked it about a week ago. The new PR doesn't seem to be helping the search results yet. I guess this is because it will take a while to filter through to all the data centres?

Cheers, --Neoconned 09:53, 27 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Sgrena Report links

Sgrena Report available via The Memory Hole

I also informed AI and Maynard.

--Hugh Manatee 16:40, 2 May 2005 (EDT)

The Memory Hole's Tobacco Docs

The Memory Hole's - Sealed Testimony From Justice Dept's Case Against the Tobacco Industry

--Hugh Manatee 01:46, 6 May 2005 (EDT)

update on update

Bob, have you seen this:

Christina Lamb and Mohammad Shehzad, Captured Al-Qaeda kingpin is case of ‘mistaken identity’, The Sunday Times (UK), May 08, 2005
The capture of a supposed Al-Qaeda kingpin by Pakistani agents last week was hailed by President George W Bush as “a critical victory in the war on terror”. According to European intelligence experts, however, Abu Faraj al-Libbi was not the terrorists’ third in command, as claimed, but a middle-ranker derided by one source as “among the flotsam and jetsam” of the organisation.

left the site in question disappointed and with a fairly lengthy ranting.

i don't believe i tracked mud back here. this not directly related to sourcewatch anyway, other than any open-sourced knowledge-base is a potential vector for the spread of distorted data used as an authoritarian source citation. if i ever start to work out the arguments conscisely, i'll let you see the notes, an editor from TheReg, who sometimes converses with me has already asked to see them too. the roots of this concept predate my membership here. it also relates to how some blogs ran roughshod over the google page-ranking algorithms via premeditated cross-linkage for a while, the practise generally termed as google-bombing, which i feel is better described as google-jacking, and obtusely, a few other things.

if you're interested, this link was created as a ref to my last post. maybe i am wrong about al-libbi, but i don't think so, i still feel that my posts, only on the talk page were bulk-deleted with a dishonest reasoning stated on the logs. so i am biased and long winded, i didn't engage in article editing or any deleting because i know i am biased, openly admit bias, and am willing to argue the merits of my bias on an open forum. i cannot be any fairer than that, and remain honest. i did lay a hard tirade at the deleter who claimed i was saying Bush=Hitler. not me, i do not choose to belittle history in this fashion. oddly a short but very sarcastic post of mine still remained the other night. something like

"to believe anything a republican administration, past or present, says about Pakistan is to be guilty of bad Feith"

with urls anchored to the words past and present.

cheers -- --Hugh Manatee 06:12, 12 May 2005 (EDT)

you might want to delete that tiny url above after reading this though, muddy boots and all of that.

--- Hugh

sorry not to respond sooner -- meant to do it today but got sidetracked on various SW edits and then out of time to wade through the email backlog. V interesting re: al-libbi. Hope to have a look tomorrow. --Bob Burton 06:48, 12 May 2005 (EDT)


as i've mentioned before, i tend to throw a tremendous amount of words into the stream, do not feel compelled to respond. i brought this up originally, because i was stunned when the meesePiece appeared here, and i didn't want to feel i'd ambushed anyone here.

since you expressed interest though:

Media Matters for America, Media largely ignored doubts about importance of captured terrorist al-Libbi, May 12, 2005

It looks as if i was probably wrong on one account, Abu Faraj and Abu Faraj Farj may well be one and the same. There has appeared many references to both Abu Faraj al-Libbi and Abu Farj al-Libbi in the last few newscycles. This still does not change my claim of intentional distortion on the part of the censor of my posts, he still should have used the whole reference as it appeared in the telegraph article.

Also the fact that Pakistan is holding on to al-Libbi and not handing him over to the US is a bit of difference from their past habits (last four paragraphs), and the US is not complaining about getting their hands of #3. It looks as if they know he is worthless for intelligence. Pakistan has also backed way off of their intitial claims, and now say just that he is the mastermind behind many failed assassination attempts. this orwellian claim is what got me going in the first place. it's hard to believe that the planner of multiple failed operations would be termed a mastermind.

--Hugh Manatee 11:50, 13 May 2005 (EDT)

removing redirect to wikipedia

Bob, pls see my reply on Hugh's talk page about how to remove a redirect to Wikipedia --Neoconned 09:06, 21 May 2005 (EDT)

I took it off of my page, but

Bob, you need to go to

and then you can simply edit the Sourcewatch page to remove the redirect. For what :it's worth, as I've previously stated, I'm against these redirects to Wikipedia because I think they have a 'chilling effect' on people contributing to Sourcewatch. --Neoconned

I probably would have tried

but that would have been a guess.

here's an oddball and relative to my previous posting ref: slashdot-who decides the truth.

Slashdot's geekish elitism often irritates me, gets interesting again here

--Hugh Manatee 03:21, 22 May 2005 (EDT)


some weak key links hopefully with goo scraped off my shoes -(i feel so dirty-didn't leave anything behind tho...)

my guess: not intentionally a vandal, but hyperactive, to say the least

oh yeah, if you're curious in re: al-Libbi story. further updates will most likely be posted on PR Watch board thread here --Hugh Manatee 05:00, 5 Jun 2005 (EDT)

IFF DC vs IFF Maryland

Hi Bob, Can I please draw your attention to Talk:Alliance for Democracy in Iran, regarding the various Iran Freedom Foundations that are around. Cheers, --Neoconned 08:04, 18 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Thanks - just about to knock off so I'll have a look at it tomorrow. Thanks for doing that. best wishes --Bob Burton 08:07, 18 Jun 2005 (EDT)

thanks and a link

Bob, thanks for checking New Economics Foundation. I am unfamiliar with the original author, and wanted to let some S/W members know in case a conflict arose. I know little of the org, only what i skimmed when editing the page, but it seemed there were a couple of biased statements unsourced. The bias isn't so bad, as long as it can be backed with proper citations.

anyway, i've noticed that you frequently work on Hill & Knowlton; and i came across this today: On the move: Hill & Knowlton hires Dorinson as senior VP, Sacramento bee

I would have just placed it on the page, but i don't know if it is worthwhile. The name Dorison ought to be added into a base somewhere though.

cheers --Hugh Manatee 12:46, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Congressional Research Service

Bob, yesterday, i noticed that you placed some inactive references to CRS reports somewhere on a FAQ or resource howto page. The CRS no longer allows a straight cgi link to their reports from a Congrssional website, so the Shays and Green links are invalid.

It reminded me that i had quite a few links to online CRS reports that i hadn't put on S/W, so I've updated the page, including many currently valid links to collections. Congressional Research Service

cheers - --Hugh Manatee 07:06, 14 Jul 2005 (EDT)

List of ... pages

OK, that makes sense :-) So how about a Category:Lists? That'll automatically give us a list of lists; the existing list of lists page can then become a redirect. All "List of ..." pages can then be normalised to just "..." if you see what I mean. Mememe 16:58, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)


Thanks for your message. I came here about a year ago to write some articles related to the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution. Later I also worked on some other topics like some other think tanks, but the main reason was AdTI. I hope to come back here sometimes to keep those articles up-to-date (esp. the external links need some attention). Bonzai 06:26, 2 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Australian Egg Corporation's Egg Nutrition Advisory Group?


I just ran across this odd bit of data browsing some press releases.

i-newswire - pr40429

The Australian Egg Corporation today announced the appointment of five distinguished nutrition and medical healthcare experts to the newly formed Egg Nutrition Advisory Group (ENAG).

[. . .]

Members of the Egg Nutrition Advisory Group are:

  • Dr Manny Noakes Senior Research Dietitian, CSIRO Health Sciences and Nutrition, Sydney
  • Ms Sharon Natoli Accredited Practising Dietitian and founding Director, Food and Nutrition Australia, Sydney
  • A/Prof Karam Kostner Cardiologist, University of Queensland, Brisbane
  • Dr David Lim General Practitioner, Church Street Medical Practice, Sydney
  • Dr Tania Markovic Endocrinologist, Royal Prince Alfred Medical Centre, Sydney

For information on ENAG, or the latest information on egg nutrition, visit:

--Hugh Manatee 03:24, 5 Aug 2005 (EDT)

new contributing concept?

I can't say I am a fan of this:


It seems to me to be a potential vector for quickly casting a shadow over an article without spending time actually citing the reason(s) it is questionable. It is extremely easy to drop preformatted template code of one statement into a page:

Sw exclamation.png This article should be checked for fairness.
Please see discussion on the talk page.
Sw exclamation.png This article should be checked for accuracy.
Please see discussion on the talk page.
Sw exclamation.png The fairness and/or accuracy of this article or section is disputed.
Please see discussion on the talk page before contributing.


In response to your message on my page: OK, that makes sense :-) So how about a Category:Lists? That'll automatically give us a list of lists; the existing list of lists page can then become a redirect. All "List of ..." pages can then be normalised to just "..." if you see what I mean. Mememe 16:57, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Categories doesn't have a talk page :)
I think that the category feature needs some firmness of structure and guideline. For instance, top levels of 'public relations', 'media', 'democracy' and subdivisions thereof, in keeping with the purpose of this particular wiki.

Just like "other SourceWatch resources" links, and endless blogster opinions, too many of something (categories) devalues the benefit and value of that feature (categories), by making it too diffuse or diluted, and ultimately more disorganized.

There should also be a guideline that users not make large scale wholesale changes in the mode of a runaway train. Creating an article and linking many other articles to it is more wiki-passive than creating a category and modifying dozens of pages in a manner which is laborious to reverse.
--Maynard 11:42, 20 Aug 2005 (EDT)

PINR affiliation with ISN

Thanks for the format fix of Power and Interest News Report. I did a little googling of their analysts, and the results came back pretty deep, although some look like self-promotion links.

It is a start of a long project of putting stubs in for affiliates of The International Relations and Security Network. I started with the PINR because it led me to the ISN.

--Hugh Manatee 03:48, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

A nitpicking thing, but wanted to mention that putting news agency names like Associated Press in italics is not correct form. Associated Press is a news entity or agency, not a publication, as is USA Today or New York Times. It also takes up byte space, which can really add up, I'm sure, on page byte space when there are numerous citations.

IMHO :-) Artificial Intelligence 04:53, 14 Aug 2005 (EDT)

I've created a category called Lists, and I'm adding lists to it.

I've created a category called Lists, and I'm adding lists to it. It'll automatically give us a list of lists; the existing list of lists page can then become a redirect when it's finished and we're all reasonably happy. All "List of ..." pages can then be normalised to just "..." if you see what I mean. Mememe 16:57, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)

FYI: Perhaps you already use one but I found a site that checks webpages for dead or outdated links. Its Warning: can cause lots of sighing.

The Emacs wiki has a list of banned urls and won't let a page get saved if it contains one of them. might reduce the whack-a-spammer. Zardoz 00:08, 31 Aug 2005 (EDT)

The Conundrum of Abiogenic Oil

Hi Bob, Please check out the following and tell me what you think:

The Conundrum of Abiogenic Oil

barbour disgusted me

Bob, when Katrina was still raking Mississippi, Barbour came on CNN, and his main concern seemed to be looters. With human bodies floating in the floodwaters of the State of Mississippi, the state's governor, Barbour, chose to use his time on a national news outlet emphasising his intent to get medieval on looters. That is one hell of a pro business bent, as well as a fine application of compassionate conservatism.

CNN almost always has transcripts, and I'll try to run them down soon, but I am up to something else at the moment, and was just quickly scanning the RSS of S/W changes through my newsreader, and noticed your tag on a Barbour edit.

--Hugh Manatee 04:51, 2 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Bob ... code talking here .. did the "high" then "low" thingy and it seems to have had a temporary effect ... thanks.

Just can't have a battle of the wits with the wit-less. Artificial Intelligence 16:16, 2 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Economics, Science and Communications Institute

Greetings, indeed the ECI is more of a policy research institute than a think tank. We're more of the legitimate kind as there is no actual external influence, not even funding. However since there is no such category, it felt appropriate to list it under think tank. I thought I had made a mistake last night and recreated it, you might want to go ahead and remove it. I added information about the origins of the institute (on the site, not the wiki), which might clear some questions.



Hi, Thanks very much for the critique. It has been very helpful since I have no previous background as a writer.

I think I may split the issues out of the article and add to the appropriate places where already existing in peak oil and then add sections which I feel are needed, the history of past oil price spirals, regulatory actions, similar industry actions which impact prices, etc. I've already added one section concerning antitrust which I hope will highlight other reasons for the current price spiral rather than the 'cover' story of peak oil.

Thanks again, James Horn

Well, it's a start. Hope you like it. [1]

Started discussion on antitrust issues. [2]

Storms shutting down oil production is lie

You can bet that most of what this guy says is true: [ Lies To Hike The Price Of Oil]. Unfortunately, there's no evidence, unless one wants to do a field trip to the GOM (Gulf of Mexico). < This guy is definitely off his medication.

Gas Industry Maneuvering

[Consumers Alliance for Affordable Natural Gas] Just about everything here is a misdirection away from the real issues. After passage of EPA legislation to curtail industry (read power company) pollution, the industry dragged their heals on technology development for years and the technology that was finally developed has been having some serious problems in implementation having impact on the bottom line. This is probably the real basis behind the industry complaint of EPA regs. causing to much financial impact. While they were dragging their feet, the power industry turned to gas powered turbine peaking plants as a response to increased capacity demand and to decrease pollution per generated kilowatt/hour.

The result was a huge increase in natural gas demand by this industry which naturally drove up prices for everyone. The problem with this strategy is that it uses limited natural gas resources rather than plentiful coal resources. Also, the btu delivered by natural gas vs. a similar quantity of coal is much less. Only about 30% of the energy from either gas or coal is converted to electricity which is then delivered to households that use electrical heating with additional transmission losses. It would be much better to have the power industry use coal with pollution control technology to generate electricity and have natural gas delivered directly to homes for heating, thereby using the in excess of 90% conversion efficiencies of the gas to heat. A grade schooler can easily do the math on this.


Bob, in regards to the graphics file from a year ago, i think i came to it through a rss link to WH war protest graphic query, and then a jump from there to wherever i found it. It was probably my fault, not paying attention,

I wrote up a bit of research into Posse Comitatus Act several years ago (4or5, i think), the trick would be figuring out which CD archive I burned it on. If i run into anytime soon, i post the data over to you.

also, i've been doing my share of arguing other places, mostly in regards to my opposition to Roberts on what I believe to be constitutional construction, as well as a lot of Weldon critique. I'll see if I can't put some of the latter together for a S/W stub, something like Curt Weldon: Fable Arranger?. Weldon is a nightmare waitng to happen, even NRO has put on the moonsuit to separate themselves from him, and Ledeen writes for them. Look at what Podhoretz blogged. It's too bad the National Review no longer has morals. This stupidity would be over if they were willing to keep the high ground.

A few days ago i messaged a journalist of The Scotsman, hard and low, asking if if it was spin or was he spun. He had cited a FPRI major Radu, and it offended me. To his credit, he responded. Might turn out to be a decent contact.

recently, i did a bit of research into a WorldNetDaily ad for a book that masqueraded as an article, and after tracking the references came up with term, circlejerking citations. They even cite a Commentary Jornal piece. It would be tough to be more NeoConniving than supporting a NeoCon book by citing one of the obscure journals that was CIA funded, and helped feed the NeoCons during the 50' and 60's The book marketed in this evil fashion is ironically titled "The Marketing of Evil". Nasty bit of work it is indeed, and i didn't make any new friends on the conservative board where i was playing either.

--Hugh Manatee 05:37, 27 Sep 2005 (EDT)

See main newslinks. [3]



Saw your article on CSR and it reminded me of some news I'd seen concerning AIG. Seems they're having a bit of difficulty in the CSR area. Then lo and behold they have a class action against them concerning Katrina. I think you'll get a laugh out of the first story.

Fortune:,15114,368676,00.html Financial Times:,_i_rssPage=9d5b9ebe-c8bc-11d7-81c6-0820abe49a01.html Also - Delaware Online: Business Insurance: PR Newswire: Grand Island Independent: SFGov: San Diego Source: Hurricane Katrina Suit:

Most of the above thnx to AIG search on


odd data someone might want


I just ran into this, but I don't know who might be interested in it. I thought maybe you would know if it was within anyone's research field of vision:

Hoping to limit winery-consumer shipments, distributors go on contribution spree, WWMT-TV, Kalamazoo, MI, October 25, 2005

LANSING (AP) - A powerful group representing Michigan beer and wine distributors spent nearly $50,000 on campaign contributions to prevent wineries from shipping directly to Michigan customers.

New campaign finance reports filed with the Secretary of State's office show the Michigan Beer and Wine Wholesalers Association's political action committee contributed to Governor Granholm and lawmakers from both parties between July and October.

Lawmakers are considering bills that would change the state's wine shipment law.

The Supreme Court ruled in May that Michigan's law discriminates against out-of-state wineries by banning them from shipping directly to consumers.

The wholesalers group represents the middlemen who buy from wine makers and sell to licensed retailers.

Some highlights of the campaign finance report:

  • Governor Granholm, a Democrat, received $5,000
  • Campaign committees for the House Democrats and Republicans took in $3,000
  • Senate Democrats received $2,500
  • Representative Chris Ward - a Brighton Republican who introduced a bill banning all wine shipments from wineries - received $2,000

--Hugh Manatee 19:50, 25 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Sorry Bob, I missed out a word in the Sherwood piece, I’ve corrected that. Also I was a little untidy with the Colombe Foundation. Apologies. I feel I have improved my understanding of how to use all the functions but am still on a learning curve! I'm also trying to look and add at a variety of different issues. --Ben Malcom

Hill and Knowlton affiliate

I don't know if you have a use for this, but I caught it browsing some Press Releases:

Resource Communications

from PR web

Contact name: Aman Gupta
Address: 5/30, Jangpura B
New Delhi, New Delhi 110014 India
Phone: 91 11 4317045
Fax: 91 11 4321031
E-Mail: amangu AT


Resource is India's first PR firm specialising into life sciences and life products sector or in more broader terms healthcare.

Formed in year 2000, the year of Genome, it has evolved as India's premier communications advisory.

With team of proffessionals from background in healthcare, pharmceuticals, journolism, business management, etc. and a network that spans India ( 11 offices), it offers the complete pan-Indian appraoch to each client.

Resource communications, with its affliation with Hill & Knowlton also offers, global PR to companies in India and also work with global companies in India.

--Hugh Manatee 18:53, 28 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Pajamas Media

Bob, I swiped Hugh's data dump on Pajamas Media (guess great minds sorta think alike) off your talk page and started the article .. didn't want to duplicate. Hope you don't mind ... Artificial Intelligence 10:54, 30 Oct 2005 (EST)


thanks Bob, i did refrain from any references to the Chemical light stick of GOP enlightenment...

also, I noticce AI did a stub for Pajamas Media. I am dumping the following on her talk page also.

the concept of grouping blog together into a money making co-opt is fairly new, but there are prior instances:

some blog co-opts

The TPM Cafe has impressed me with their ability to hit fast on news items. I load them up in my RSS reader often. I just ran into them about two weeks ago.

Also, if you don't have an RSS reader you are satisfied with, I am using RSS Owl presently, an am pretty happy with it. It's a sourceforge hosted open-source project, free for the taking, but you need current java runtimes for smooth sailing with it. I can dump a few opml files (properly coded links to be read by RSS readers) to you if you are looking for some RSS links too.

--Hugh Manatee 00:13, 31 Oct 2005 (EST)

RSS Reader

Bob, if you have up to date java executables, download RSS Owl, let me know, and I'll upload some link files for for newsites and the few blogs that I've collected so far. It even uses IE as an internal browser. self-contained, but if you have a good deal of ram, you can load links outside of program in browser of choice. It's an easy prog to operate, but I haven't even used it to aggregate yet.

Once the site data is loaded, it's almost self-explanatory for general usage.

RSS isn't well utilized yet by all major papers, but it's coming into more common usage day by day.

Major Toledo Blade Series

"BushFundRaisersReapMillions.html Bush fund-raisers reap millions in contracts, corporate subsidies", The Toledo Blade, October 30, 2005

Sorry if you've heard of it. The Blade is known for some powerful stories now and then. This is the first day of a four day series. The above link is an intro to four stories published on the 30th.

AP Wire tossed out a teaser on it too:

The Associated Press, "Report: Bush fundraisers got $1.2 billion in public funds", Clevland Plain Dealer, October 30, 2005

--Hugh Manatee 07:23, 31 Oct 2005 (EST)

in re the TolBlade story, your welcome Bob, and if interested, I am probably going to archive all of them into one self-contained dynamic page, sort of like BCCI financial time series i did, if you ever downloaded it.

Thanks Bob - Appreciate the material you sent over. They are group that require more research, particularly with their close connections to members of the Labour Party. I would like to do more on DNA Bioscience. -- Ben Malcom


Please see

The Iraqi's were quick to claim war crimes during the earlier periods of the war which was nothing more than propaganda intended to turn world opinion to their favor, regardless what our excuse was to enter the war.



Hi Bob, I've dropped you a line. Cheers, Neoconned 22:20, 24 Nov 2005 (EST)


Hi AI, was just trying to find if there was a SW article on how the media has covered the war in Iraq to copy some Spin of the Day material across -- can't see anything that fits. (there pages on govt propaganda/disinformation etc not not specifically on how the media have covered the war). Is there a page on the topic that I'm missing? cheers --Bob Burton 15:35, 25 Nov 2005 (EST)

Funny that you should ask, as it has come to mind several times that we don't have an article for that.

Rather than dupe original post across to your page thought I might as well respond here and delete when done. Yes, there was I thinking it must be in there somewhere just I couldn't find it.

How about: media coverage of the war in Iraq? :-)

How about a slight tweak How the media covered the war in Iraq - to avoid it becoming just a listing of media coverage -- what I was looking to post across from Spin of the Day was one comparing media coverage in Vietnam with Iraq and how governments have shaped the coverage.

BTW .. did you notice the flip-flop on Pajamas Media?

Just had a look -- all the twists and turns of a new and apparantly unstable venture. Be interesting to see how it plays out. --Bob Burton 17:49, 25 Nov 2005 (EST)

Artificial Intelligence 16:37, 25 Nov 2005 (EST)

Christian Bailey ref: many details, unchecked

--Hugh Manatee 06:04, 1 Dec 2005 (EST)

How the media covered the war in Iraq


It seems we may have had a visit from Mr. Pfeiffer. [4]

Also appears from his blog that he has had a falling out with Mr. Mike Ruppert of FTW [5] and has edited the above to reflect this fact. Should the article now say "He was a contributing editor for Michael C. Ruppert's From The Wilderness? In any event, the link to Ruppert is now gone. You may wish to revert the whole edit..

I'd like to hear your thoughts for future reference.

Thanks, JH

possible document for archives

Coalition Provisional Authority "Industry Day" Event Crystal City, Virginia, November 19, 2003

MS Excel spreadsheet - 222kb

Corporation Names - representatives - addresses

maybe a good resource for researching

--Hugh Manatee 19:44, 1 Dec 2005 (EST)


Bob, How about dumping the Bob Woodward story on SW page and bringing in the fake news/Lincoln Corp stuff? :-) Artificial Intelligence 04:59, 7 Dec 2005 (EST)

--- Agree - will go do now - meant to do it this morning. cheers bob

Ignacio Balderas--Memo 17

Hi Bob... I don't know what happened to those pages. They were links to IPOA so they must have dropped that address, and along with it the pdfs of those letters. I deleted it for now because the links are bad and nothing is showing up in google. However, I have a copy of the pdf. Is there any way to upload it? Cheers -Spacegrit 12/08/05 16:09 (PDT)

Thanks. I didn't know you could do that. -Spacegrit 12/9/05 13:46 (PDT)

Concerns about Ibrahim El-Hibri

Hi Bob,

I'd like to flag up the article on Ibrahim El-Hibri for review and possible deletion. It's fascinating reading, but there are absolutely no references and very few external links.

--Neoconned 07:46, 13 Dec 2005 (EST)


Hi Bob,

Should be on the way. -Spacegrit

Wikipedia and Congress

Not sure where I should put this, but you seem like one of the busier editors...

Now that Wikipedia is cracking down on dubious edits from Congress - see here - it would be a good idea to start adding info from Source Watch to Wikipedia.

- Bing 20:34, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

DoD Contractors--Lists & Rankings

Source: Department of Defense Personnel and Procurement, Statistical Information Analysis Division

100 Companies Receiving The Largest Dollar Volume Of Prime Contract Awards - Fiscal Year 2005

"This report presents summary data on the 100 companies, and their subsidiaries, receiving the largest dollar volume of Department of Defense (DoD) prime contract awards during fiscal year (FY) 2005. Table 1 lists the 100 companies in alphabetical order and gives their associated rank. Table 2 identifies the parent companies in rank order, with their subsidiaries, and gives the total net value of awards for both the parent company and its subsidiaries. In many cases, the parent company receives no awards itself, but appears on the list because of its subsidiaries. Table 2 also shows what percentage of the total awards each company's awards represent. Table 3 lists the top 100 companies DoD-wide in rank order and breaks the totals into three categories of procurement: Research, Development, Test, and Evaluation (RDT&E); Other Services and Construction; and Supplies and Equipment. Table 4 lists the top 50 companies for each of the Reporting Components in rank order, and by category of procurement."

Data consists of eight PDFs downloadable from link above, or alternatively all eight can be presently downloaded in one zipped file here,

Also of note in the file is the listing of some subsidiaries of big gov contracting corporations.

cheers - --Hugh Manatee 01:57, 6 Feb 2006 (EST)

cc AI, Bob B., Spacegrit

Bob, I pulled this data from a source that lists available online documents that I happened upon recently.

It's called DocuTicker, but can be a bit verbose. Their RSS Feed is a much easier read, if you ever got around to setting up a reader.

It's part of a web project called Resource Shelf. Loads of links. Some are in need of updating though.

--Hugh Manatee 05:24, 6 Feb 2006 (EST)


disambiguation query: Emily's List in the UK is a different campaign from EMILY's List in the US. Can you separate?

I'd be really grateful if you get a sec to have a look - DavidR


I seem to have irritated a new poster at the Mansoor Ijaz stub.

Please check history versioning both the article and talk page. I would appreciate other opinions.

cc AI, BobB, DianeF, Maynard

--Hugh Manatee 09:27, 23 Feb 2006 (EST)

Thanks for the welcome

"HonestReporting" would you go at it!

Any chance of arbitrating at the Johann Hari entry?

Glad to be here.

I just updated the article on Working Families for Wal-Mart. Could you check it out for style, tone and length. I'll do short article on the red-linked Herald Group. Should I also do ones on Wal-Mart Watch and Wake-up Wal-Mart? I wasn't sure about the "contacts at the bottom of the page part"--couldn't find them, so I'm writing you here.

Yes I'll have a look at it in a little while. One other thing I have to do first.

So, when your bio says you're a "part-time editor" here, is that like at Wikipedia or does Sourcewatch have a professional editor?

I'm employed 3/4 time by the Center for Media and Democracy to (as far as possible) to review contributions, help newcomers get started if they aren't familiar with wikis, handle requests & fill obvious gaps, handle complaints etc ... and in my spare time ....

Are there templates for references or do you just cite external links?

I'll get Neoconned to fill you in on that one. He has recently started doing the Wikipedia style referencing here but the last few weeks I just haven't had time to catch up on it and put it into our help pages. Cheers --Bob Burton 18:15, 1 Mar 2006 (EST)

Best,--Beth Wellington 17:12, 1 Mar 2006 (EST)

Bob, I like the changes you made to the article. For O'Dwyers, see *"Bush PR Pros Set Up Herald Group", Jack O'Dwyer's Newsletter, October 12, 2005, which you cited in the original Working Families for Wal-Mart. I don't have a sub, so I read the Google cache and it's just rehashing of the corporate webpage, but we could add it to this article, too.

sure worth adding with a (sub req'd) note at the end of the citation. If you every need a full article in O'Dwyers let me know.

What do you make of the fact that Wikipedia and SourceWatch have scooped the professional profilers.

Not so surprising, they miss a lot. Commonly the trade press will feed off a) what is sent to them (companies wanting to strut their stuff to potential clients) b) picking up from articles in the mainstream media c) tips from industry insiders about possible stories - though this is not always just attempts at soft promo pieces - there is often some really good material that pops up in their articles. But even the bigger trade publications struggle to cope with the growth of the industry.
There were a few other places I didn't have time to look last night for additional material. You could try the Center for Public Integrity which has good databases and there's the US lobbying registration details accessible via If i get a chance in the next day or two I'll have a look in one or two other databases, must go --Bob Burton 23:34, 2 Mar 2006 (EST)

Reference templates

Haven't heard from Neoconned yet. I'll write him.--Beth Wellington 23:14, 2 Mar 2006 (EST)

The format Neoconned gave me is not compatible and doesn't appear to automatically list references. Here's what I wrote him.

The reference template I use at Wikipedia lets you type in references where you place the footnotes, using a format like "[1]" and then automatically compiles them at the bottom when you set up a section, "==References==

  1. Title. Title of Complete Work. Retrieved on YYYY-MM-DD.

" It did not work here. See [6] for the list I've been using. There may be others. (To actually read the script for the template, hit "edit" for this section to read the html.)

SacBee article regarding WalMart and Ca. politics

Los Angeles City Attorney Rocky Delgadillo, who's battling Oakland Mayor Jerry Brown for the Democratic nomination for attorney general, expressed regrets Thursday about his role in recruiting Wal-Mart to Los Angeles.

Delgadillo, in a breakfast meeting with The Bee's Capitol Bureau, said he was unaware of Wal-Mart's critics in 1997, when he was a Los Angeles deputy mayor who helped bring the giant retailer to Panorama City.

Delgadillo has called Wal-Mart a "predator" on the middle class and his campaign has chastised Brown for bringing a store to Oakland and accepting $10,600 in campaign contributions from Wal-Mart heir John Walton and his wife, Christy. Brown, in response, resurrected Delgadillo's role in attracting the Panorama City store.

[. . .]

cc: DianeF - BobB (plus BWellington, I guess...)

--Hugh Manatee 11:08, 3 Mar 2006 (EST)

Site navbar

Hi Bob, please see Template talk:SiteNavbar - it would be nice to have feedback, especially as to whether you think it's a good idea at all! --Neoconned 14:51, 14 Mar 2006 (EST)

How does one add?

Just that. How do you add an article. With wikipedia, a failed search generally (if not always) gives the opportunity to add an article.--Allamakee Democrat 17:41, 19 Mar 2006 (EST)

Iowa congressional delegation

This article was a work in progress until the software refused to let me save a further edit (it should be Tom Latham, and not "Lathan"). I was going to add the congressional district numbers, party information and links to official congressional bios as well as extant wikipedia articles. As to your suggestion for a rename to reflect the current congress, something like Iowa congressional delegation, 109th Congress would be in order, and would serve as a model for further articles

I don't SW as a proper venue for extensive biographies, but certainly a list such as this could be piped as Charles E. Grassley. SW is a peculiar venue, and biographical articles on all members of Congress are not really in order. For states with small congressional delegations, a summary list makes sense. Big states such as California would be more difficult. Big bad members of Congress such as DeLay of course deserve their own articles.

In my few hours of rummaging around, I see there are fewer than 10,000 articles, many of them very opaquely named. I also see that categories are inconsistent (the ones that comes to mind deal with the political parties). --Allamakee Democrat 21:52, 20 Mar 2006 (EST)


Hi Bob, thanks for the welcome. I wonder if you know who can deal with a problem in the search function? When I search for the text "awb limited" (in lowercase), the article comes up as number 12 on the results but I would expect it to go straight to the article as it does when I search for "AWB Limited". According to SourceWatch:Searching the search is supposed to be case-insensitive. -- Wasted 11:52, 23 Mar 2006 (EST)


Unless you or someone else objects, I plan on cleaning up some of the categories here. If you click down the category "Corruption" in Insider trading you'll get down to a mess with badly catted "Jack Abramoff" articles. I plan on creating an actual category named "Jack Abramoff", piping them all.--Allamakee Democrat 23:30, 28 Mar 2006 (EST)

Looks like a good idea to me. as most of the posting on Jack has been by Artificial Intelligence it would be worth posting a not on AI's talk page too. --Bob Burton 23:37, 28 Mar 2006 (EST)
FYI .. the first I saw of this was today. The Kucinich thing caught me totally by surprise and I could not figure out what the point of it was. I agree that a separate category for individuals is a bit much. Anyone searching for Jack Abramoff, either directly in "Search" or by using our new SW task bar, will find all that they need.
As for the "mess" of corruption links .. well, this administration HAS CREATED a "mess" of corruption, has it not? Less corruption = less "mess". My 2cents worth. Artificial Intelligence 10:10, 29 Mar 2006 (EST)
Deleted category:Jack Abramoff scandal as no articles linked to it. Another FYI .. in category:corruption there were 11 articles linked to Jack Abramoff and 11 linked to Thomas D. DeLay. Why single out Abramoff? Kucinich? Artificial Intelligence 10:20, 29 Mar 2006 (EST)

It doesn't seem to me that individual names should be Categories. I might have let the Abramoff thing go if I hadn't seen the Kucinich categories (multiple categories for one name) first. But if you're going to go thru the database and create George Bush and Karl Rove and Valerie Plame and Saddam Hussein and Don Rumsfeld and Mickey Mouse category links, I suggest that you can find a more useful way to spend your time and energies.

Note that the "What links here" link is very effective for finding out which articles reference an individual.

--Maynard 09:57, 29 Mar 2006 (EST)

Actually, Allamakee Democrat didn't create any categories for Kucinich. If you put a vertical bar after a category tag, the phrase after the vertical bar specifies where the page should be listed alphabetically within that category. Thus, "category:politics|Kucinich, Dennis" merely specifies that the Dennis Kucinich article should be alphabetized under "K" rather than "D".
--Maynard 10:52, 29 Mar 2006 (EST) slaps own face, causing nosebleed
I don't have an opinion about whether "category:Jack Abramoff scandal" should exist. I see AI's point about turning individual names into categories. On the other hand, the Jack Abramoff scandal is a pretty big scandal.
With regard to the alphabetizing that Allamakee has been doing, though, I think someone should revert the reversions. --Sheldon Rampton 10:32, 29 Mar 2006 (EST)
Thanks for that tip about the bar following the category tag. It will come in handy in getting Abramoff's and DeLay's articles properly alphabetized. I knew there had to be a way to do it! :-) Artificial Intelligence 10:40, 29 Mar 2006 (EST)

weldon nepotism


Weldon data added to [[7]]

new formatting threw me off, and wasn's sure if i should be messing with it. Might hold off a day or so incorporating it though, i have some Able Danger/Weldon cites that don't seem to be included, i ought to drop.

--hugh_manateee 02:16, 26 Apr 2006 (EDT)

Naming of Members of Parliament page

Hi Bob - Both are very good ideas. I think it at the moment it would be best to look primarily at the House of Commons. The House of Lords is way too big but I think it's something we can plan long-term. So certainly we can rename it to List of Members of House of Commons Elected 2005 (United Kingdom)

I started the original page through inspiration based on the new Congresspedia. I was not that happy with the title but I just used the same format for the 2001 elections.

My only problem is that I don't know how to rename a page!! I still have a very basic knowledge. Could you possibly do it? Many thanks -- Ben Malcom

Ok, I actually managed to do it! I also added each M.P.'s political affiliation. I'll try and do one on the Canadian Parliament at some point as well. -- Ben Malcom

Hi Bob - I like the idea of creating a page on how to research members of the House of Commons so other contributors can help. What should it be called and is there a related example at SourceWatch so we can use a similar template? I'll certainly be working through the pages on M.P.'s and will update and reference the interests details. I appreciate all your help in this. -- Ben Malcom

Thanks Bob for setting the page up. It should hopefully encourage people to contribute. -- Ben Malcom

APF articles, May 2006

Hi Bob - I take your points. Without getting into a long screed, I do want to point out that my first message to Neoconned was very polite. His response was aggressive and full of undertones as you may have seen. I think blame can be divided. I also just want to point out that my changes were not criticized by the 32 syops on SourceWatch. Some did not involve any deletion but rephrasing for it to read better. Nevertheless as I stated earlier I will not alter the pages until this has been resolved with Conor’s arbitration who I’ll be in touch with in due course. Tks -- Ben Malcom

Ben - In your first message to me, you:
  • falsely claimed that "many others have already suggested" I have a personal problem with the APF (in fact only 2 fly-by-night contributors, with non-existent contributions records, have done so)
  • claimed that I had "added reactionary comments" to the articles.
  • suggested that I might have fabricated the screengrabs of the APF pages (it's difficult to imagine a more serious charge on here).
So I will leave it to SW readers to decide whether that message was "very polite", as you have just claimed. --Neoconned 08:07, 9 May 2006 (EDT)
One of the issues which I’m deeply hurt by is the way that my words are being misconstrued. Neoconned implies that I questioned, at best, the authenticity or at worst alleged forgery as regards the screen grabs. This is not true. I would not say that to a fellow syop. My point, an obvious one surely that impartial observers may judge screen grabs supplied from the personal computers of anonymous SW contributors, without independent corroboration as being of doubtful provenance. My comments were not aimed at him but the principle of screengrabs but if he is offended then I am more than happy to unreservedly apologise. I even said “You have done a good job on SW and added some important innovations and you are a valued member.” I regret to say that there has been no reciprocal expression of regret for the undertones in his comments about me and others (“fly-by night contributors”). I think you may notice that they have been making entries if you look at the recent history. -- Ben Malcom
First, I am very happy to accept your apology - thank you.
However, Ben, you did imply I might have fabricated the screengrabs. Here is what you said: "...many will say it has come from your computer, an image can easily be taken after the text is manipulated. Because of your strong intrest in these pages we certainly can’t be sure." (my italics on we). You clearly included yourself in the group of people who couldn't be sure if I'd forged the screengrabs.
Now let's consider the contribution records of those 2 (or "many" as you term them) contributors.
  • Schmil made 3 contributions in Aug 2005, all APF-related.
  • You're right. I'd failed to spot that SARS has within the last 2 days made 2 contributions about China. These are the first 2 contributions he has ever made to articles which are not either his userpage, or APF-related.
This is so transparent that I have to laugh. SARS first appeared on SW immediately after the APF articles were first created. Despite promises about all the contributions he'd make, he in fact showed no interest in anything other than the APF articles. After an absence of approximately 6 months, as if by magic he reappeared exactly when this latest controversy about the APF articles blew up, and then starts to try building up a contributions record. So I have no hesitation about labelling him as someone who has a personal agenda with regard to the APF articles.
Ironically, he is the one who accused me of having a personal agenda with the APF. Whilst he has been away from SW, I have contributed an extensive series of articles on the push for nuclear rebuild in the UK, profiles of various British politicians, and developed a new navigation system for the site. Before I ever wrote about the APF, I already had an extensive contributions record on SW stretching back over a year. Whereas SARS only ever shows up here when the APF is under discussion. So which of us is the one with a personal agenda? --Neoconned 08:52, 9 May 2006 (EDT)
Conor, Bob – As discussed, I was going to formalise a detailed reply stating my points as regards certain pages created by Neoconned, which I regarded had selective reasoning, and which appeared like personal blogs with either inaccuracies or tilts, and as a syop I felt obliged in making edits which would ensure fairness and accuracy.
However, after Neoconned’s recent responses I have come to the realisation that anything I or anyone else states will be objected to by him through long arduous debates, conspiratorial undertones, so eventually nothing will ever be resolved. He resists any change to the pages created by him. In any case, I’ve already made my points clear, and I really do not want to inflict another long screed on my fellow syops, or waste your or my time.
I appreciate the efforts of both yourselves, A.I. and others in trying to diffuse the situation. Right now I feel that the best way to resolve this is as Conor said, to stand back and take a deep breath and I urge Neoconned to do the same. However, I will be monitoring the situation closely. -Ben Malcom
Sorry Ben, you don't get out of it that easily. Having attacked the accuracy of the articles, the least I think you should do is provide a detailed explanation of what you think is wrong with them. You say: "In any case, I’ve already made my points clear". Wrong. As Bob has pointed out to you, you haven't done this yet. Don't you think the least we deserve is a detailed defence of your position?
I'm going to continue to post suggested changes to the relevant sections in the articles' talk pages, and I'd encourage you to do the same. I'd also encourage you to comment on those changes that I post.
Since you claimed that many of the sources I used for the articles were "not well known and missing credibility", I'm also going to post a list of those sources, so that you can comment on exactly why you think there is a problem with each one. --Neoconned 22:49, 9 May 2006 (EDT)

Husain Haqqani

Hi Bob – I’m relatively new to this, but regarding the page Husain Haqqani, an individual called Honest Desi has altered information that was already referenced and has added some links to support his argument. A senior SourceWatch member should decide if his changes are appropriate or not. By his own admittance he knows Husain Haqqani. - Stan-Ley

upload request

Hi Bob, In view of the apparent contentiousness of the articles related to Tepper Aviation, Inc., would you mind capturing and uploading the 3 documents on the Florida Dept of State's website, referenced at Tepper Aviation, Inc.#Florida Department of State, Division of Corporations records? Two are HTML pages, one is a TIF image. Many thanks, --Neoconned 14:10, 20 May 2006 (EDT)

Thanks, Bob. --Neoconned 10:11, 21 May 2006 (EDT)

ATT/NSA Data available

ATT/NSA Docs published by Wired News

Evan Hansen, Why We Published the AT&T Docs", Wired News, May 22, 2006

--hugh_manateee 23:40, 22 May 2006 (EDT)

new contributor

No problem Bob, will do. --Neoconned 06:06, 26 May 2006 (EDT)

verisign PAC pages on vetsforfreedom website - upload verification request

Hi John/Bob/Conor/Sheldon (whoever can action this first),

Please could you verify that the following screengrabs are true and accurate?

They appear to suggest a link between Vets for Freedom and the Verisign PAC. VFF has made the usual blunder of not realizing that unlinked pages can still be indexed by Google. It's a fair bet they'll be pulled off the web sharpish now, so it would be nice to get them verified by one of you ASAP. Regards, --Neoconned 14:20, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

Checked both pages and they were as per the screengrabs. --Bob Burton 16:05, 31 May 2006 (EDT)
Cheers Bob. --Neoconned 23:19, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

Family Security Matters

I think I may have made a mistake in an article I created. I called it The Family Security Foundation whereas in fact I think it also calls itself Family Security Matters which was created before. There is stuff that is new on the page I created but I'm not sure how to merge them. - Stan-Ley

Tks Bob for rearranging both pages. I'll try and delve further in to this. - Stan-Ley

Hello Bob, I will continue on the Canadian think tanks this week - crucial I think to make it known how Canada's PM is so closely linked to Fraser Institute, via Tom Flanagan (and several acting Conservative ministers), each of whom deserves, along with Barry Cooper, at least a full page and links. Thanks for your help.

upload verification request

Hi Diane/Conor/Bob/Sheldon, Please could one of you verify these rather important screengrabs?

The first two contain important new information, namely that N2189M has been flying into the CIA's Camp Peary facility, and N8183J has flown to the Phillipines. The last screengrab doesn't really tell us anything new. The site requires (free) registration to view the full historical records.

I'd suggest that the best way to verify a screengrab is to put a signed statement on the actual Image page itself (which can be edited like any other article). Cheers, --Neoconned 13:35, 5 Jun 2006 (EDT)

Thanks, Bob. --Neoconned 08:51, 6 Jun 2006 (EDT)

Hi Bob, I would like to start a new entry/article on the Civitas Society in Canada. Not sure how to do that. Thanks, Joan

erratic google results

Hi Bob, please see this very belated reply to you regarding erratic Google results. --Neoconned 00:25, 8 Jun 2006 (EDT)

page upload request

Hi Bob, could you please do this google search:

"desert rock"

grab the single page it returns out of the Google cache as a PDF, and upload it to SourceWatch? It contains information previously published by Keith Stein's ISI Consulting (but now pulled from the web) about visits by Tepper Aviation, Inc. planes to Desert Rock Airport. With many thanks, --Neoconned 02:12, 8 Jun 2006 (EDT)

Thanks Bob. --Neoconned 02:54, 8 Jun 2006 (EDT)
Thanks Bob, I'll get round to ref'ing it from all the appropriate articles over the next few days. There are quite a few well-known aircraft that seem to have had business out there in the middle of nowhere! --Neoconned 05:27, 8 Jun 2006 (EDT)

Hi Bob, I just added to the Friends of Science entry, and realised as I was doing it that I don't know how to prepare entries for the individuals involved in this tangled web - Fraser Institute, Canadian govt, ExxonMobil etc. So I just threw all the information I had prepared into the FoS page, hoping that someone better versed in WIki can fix it all up. I hope this helps rather than hinders! Grateful as always for any tips.

N964BW uploads - thanks

Thanks, Bob. --Neoconned 05:28, 9 Jun 2006 (EDT)

Oops, you need to register and login to get the full history... that shows a previous visit to The Farm, as well as various other movements. Would you mind uploading the full history? (and replace the current version of Image:FlightAware Live Flight Tracker History N964BW.pdf)? Cheers --Neoconned 05:33, 9 Jun 2006 (EDT)

Guantanamo Bay / Camp Peary flight logs uploads

Thanks for uploading those Bob, I'll get round to writing them up over the next few days. Rgds, --Neoconned 06:41, 13 Jun 2006 (EDT)

Re: Welcome

Thanks Bob. I lived in Canberra for a while some years back. Happy editing, --Cyberjunkie 06:27, 21 Jun 2006 (EDT)


Mr. Burton - I don’t believe that I asked for your assistance or opinion. From what I can see you seem to be Neoconned’s best friend, you even promote his diatribe on aviation companies and do us a lot of damage. It now appears you have become his mouthpiece. I can’t expect you to offer any assistance. My comments were to Sheldon Rampton, a man with some respect. FYI, there are not many people that are calling themselves Neoconned, or with an English accent and interested in companies connected to aviation. He does not appear for a long time on this site and then suddenly writes a page on Evergreen, he obviously has spent time investigating it and harassing innocent people like me.

Lets deal with the A – E you spent time writing:

A) The reason why there is no mention of me on SourceWatch is because I have no connection to Evergreen. Neoconned seems to think I do but as he has no proof has not written anything…yet.

B) My concerns have already been noted, his level of harassment of me and my family. From what I can see others have accused him of paedophilia which shows the reputation he must have.

C) I am not disputing that he may have sourced his information, so please don’t suggest I did. Although from what I can see none of his links on Evergreen seem to work.

D) Why are you so confident Neoconned wouldn't be wasting his time phoning people? You obviously know him personally which means you have a personal connection perhaps relationship which means you start any conversation about him with in-built bias.

E) I’m afraid to say that I don’t except any help from someone as biased as you. Perhaps you could kindly ask Mr. Rampton to address my concerns.

- Devon Smith


The elimination of EIR articles has been an issue in the past. Is there any particular reason to wholesale delete them without an explanation? We have been through this with the Voltaire Network, etc. Sorry, but must object to censorship without proper explanation(s), Bob. Artificial Intelligence 08:18, 17 Aug 2006 (EDT)

Peter Paul Bio Article Updates

bob- this article needs editing and updating, how can you lift the ban on editing since May? User:Officious 12:04 23 Aug 2006 (EDT)


All the links opened just fine for me, Bob. No problem on my end. Artificial Intelligence 06:58, 27 Sep 2006 (EDT)


I read sourcewatche's policy and it states, "SourceWatch policy is taken, by and large, from the policies of Wikipedia, which have been formulated by habit and consensus." If this is true, then you would understand why I removed non-notable critics and their potentially libelous sites from the Sathya Sai Baba article. This was decided through an ArbCom Ruling on Wikipedia which enforced Wikipedia policy. This decision can be found on Wikipedia's Sathya Sai Baba Talk Page in the blue boxes located near the top of the page. Thanks. SSS108 20:58, 11 Oct 2006 (EDT)

Hi bob not sure how to use the talk thing yet but I think it is a think tank


Update Vets for Freedom

Bob, although the "news" came out on the 10th, and I had not checked VFF-AF's FEC data until today, there is plenty of new info about the group that warrants a bit of front-page coverage: check the article for updates on legal reps and media team, all Bush-Cheney '04 Inc. operatives. Artificial Intelligence 09:33, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

Comment on my changes

By the time he transitioned out to become Congressman Peter Deutsch's Director of Internet Strategy, the Kerry on-line team had raised $50 million on-line, and went on to raise $81 million in the primaries. As Director of Internet Strategy for Congressman Deutsch's US Senate campaign, he turned around the online presence and was able to increase online fundraising fifteen-fold and develop a strong Internet volunteer community. + Sanford Dickert was the Chief Technology Officer for the Kerry Campaign with responsibilities including development of an enterprise-quality Internet infrastructure, online fundraising and online community development during the primary season.

He has since gone onto working with other Democratic campaigns up and down the Democratic ticket in Florida

Bob - contextually, and factually - these are correct. Why would you not want them there? If you look at Luis Miranda, he has similar content...

edit may have been innappropriate

Bob, apologies for my editing the Independent Institute stub, while it was locked. I was unaware of its status, but had noticed that it needed work, and i visit their website once or twice a month, so was fairly familiar with it. my reasons for going there are because i enjoy the former Cato wonk, Ivan Eland's work. Currently, he is questioning the propriety of Robert Gates as Defense Secretary[8], because of his dissembling in Iran/Contra testimony. A wonk who speaks my language...

Feel free to edit it as you see fit, but i felt it was important to mention that some of their fellows are concerned about the environment, but have very libertarian mindsets, which compel them to propose private property and free market solutions to the problems, which greatly irritates some environmentalists. I linked to some of this work, which doesn't mean I absolutely agree with it, but think that this viewpoint needs to be worked into environmental issues if any true remediation is going to occur in America.

cheers, now that the election is over, i am more comfortable around here...

--hugh_manateee 13:58, 15 November 2006 (EST)

from here

HRW was set up by the United States government to monitor human rights in Eastern Europe following the signature of the Helsinki Accords. Initially, the group was called Helsinki Watch (NB: there is a British group with the same name – specializes in monitoring elections…). The United States used Helsinki Watch for propaganda purposes, and to amplify the "human rights" contradictions in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. In this it was singularly successful, and it led to the broadening of HRW to cover additional regions. HRW-Americas, etc. and it also spun off the Index on Censorship, the latter to monitor abuses of "freedom of the press". HRW may claim that it is independent and nongovernmental, but its origins inidicate that these properties were absent. (Source: Kirsten Sellars, The Rise and rise of Human Rights, pp. 139 - 141).

Retrieved from ""

This is a decent summary of the contents of those three pages. if you want I can scan and send them to thee.

SW: In Re: Farfield query


" is not clear what the origin of the foundation list is. Does one of those ref links relate to the foundations?"

My recollections are that the list was created as an aggregation from several links, hopefully all were cited by me, and I should have noted the sources after the listing. I will go back over my notes, as i believe they are intact, and easily available, and attempt to reparse the list, noting the sources.

--hugh_manateee 18:18, 14 December 2006 (EST)

SW: Thanks

For taking care of the mistaken identity issue. :-) --Beth C 06:37, 22 December 2006 (EST)

homeland security

According to the Wikipedia: "The term became prominent in the United States following the September 11, 2001 attacks; it had been used only in limited policy circles prior to 9/11. Before this time, such action had been classified as civil defense."

I attempted, and feel that I did an adequate job, of addressing this issue in Clinton administration: Homeland Defense Before 2001, which I have added to the new article.

Artificial Intelligence 03:48, 3 January 2007 (EST)

AI, thanks that looks great. Which makes me think we should merge that side page I created into Clinton administration: Homeland Defense Before 2001. Unless you disagree, I'll make a note to do it in a few days time. cheers --Bob Burton 04:27, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Bob, Why not just make the new article into a redirect and I'll merge in your new info later this morning. Artificial Intelligence 04:43, 3 January 2007 (EST)

UN Watch entry

UN Watch entry

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your note. I agree with your comments.

There are some major errors and flaws with this entry, which was authored by Idrees (Muhammad Idrees Ahmad).

A. “The main activities of UN Watch”

A review of UN Watch’s activities from their website and on Google shows that it undoubtedly devotes significant attention to what it describes as combating anti-Israel bias and anti-Semitism. However, a quick review of the press releases and reports on their website demonstrates they are also engaged in significant activities regarding (1) monitoring and reforming the UN human rights apparatus; and (2) speaking out for human rights victims in Darfur and elsewhere. Failure to list the latter two as main activities seems to have been a deliberate distortion from the submission by Idrees.

'B. False Conspiracy Accusations'

The current Idrees-authored entry is fundamentally flawed by its accusations of a sinister conspiracy that is simply not there. Far from hiding its activities or interest in Israel-related matters, the Israel issue is all over their website. The organization devotes several major sections to Israel issues on its website, says openly in the beginning of its “About Us” section that it is affiliated with a Jewish organization and that it devotes special attention to what it describes as UN inequality against Israel, and even has an image of an Israeli flag on its homepage.

The Idrees entry itself makes no sense because on the one hand it quotes substantial segments from UN Watch publications that proudly mention its role as “leading the struggle against anti-Israel bias at the UN” – while as the same time he says UN Watch does not mention this aspect at all. Can’t have it both ways.

Therefore the following accusation in this Idrees entry seem to be malicious: “…they try their best to appear neutral.” In fact they make their strong positions on these issues very clearly.

C. In the section entitled “Promoting the Israeli regime,” the Idrees entry cites as evidence the following example: UN Watch's campaign to “Fight discrimination against Israel in the UN's regional group system.” However, a quick Google search reveals that this campaign – to end Israel’s exclusion from any of the UN’s 5 regional groups – has been embraced by none other than UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan himself, as a requirement of the UN Charter.

See UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, “Remarks at Dinner Hosted by H.E. Mr. Moshe Katsav, President of the State of Israel,” March 15, 2005 <>. (“We need to correct a long-standing anomaly that kept Israel from participating fully and equally in the work of the [United Nations] Organization.”) Unless Idrees is also accusing Kofi Annan of seeking to “promote the Israeli regime,” this seems to be a distortion of a legitimate appeal based on the UN Charter.

D. Idrees accusation: “UN Watch and its members continously portray their organization as if it were part of the United Nations itself.”

In fact, there is nothing on the UN Watch website that does this at all. Since much of what this Swiss group seems to do is critique the UN for what it claims are actions falling short of the UN Charter, it’s hard to see how anyone would ever think it is part of the very organization it is criticizing.

The Idrees accusation is simply incoherent and, it seems, malicious. His only claimed support is a quote from a few years ago where the organization says it is “mandated” to monitor the UN. Why Mr. Idrees or anyone else would take this to mean mandated by the UN itself – instead of by its own constitution or members -- is a mystery. Unless he deliberately seeks to misinform.

E. Staff

The list by Idrees of current staff has no basis other than a 2005 report’s acknowledgment for research assistance. Therefore he could well be including people who worked possibly for 5 minutes, 5 days, or 5 months – all of this in the year 2005 – as current staff. Further research on their website – from speeches given, etc. – suggests that only the first person on the list is current staff.

-- RadicalProg

Thanks and upload request

Hi Bob, thanks for the ID cards link. Could you please upload PDFs of these two pages? Both are recent visitors to the CIA's Camp Peary (and are not from the usual CIA-linked aviation contractors).

Cheers, --Neoconned 23:58, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Thanks for uploading those so speedily, Bob. --Neoconned 06:20, 28 January 2007 (EST)

notice constant changes

Hi Bob; SVP notice the constant changes entered by DavidR which simply sabotage the Johann Hari article. My reasons for objecting to his changes are made clear in the discussion page.

  1. -- he cuts out links
  2. -- adds self-serving Hari comments
  3. -- effectively damages some sections
  4. -- replaces links with old ones (e.g., Private Eye articles now reside on the cosmos server)
  5. -- messes up the external sources page including removing of the Private Eye articles.

If this type of change stands, then what is the point of SW*... Kind rgds Antidotto

locked article

Hi the Johann Hari has been locked with the silly edits introduced by DavidR (I suspect that it is Johann Hari himself). I think this is unfortunate.

Please note that DavidR's ONLY crontribution has been to undermine the Johann Hari related materials... the edits are poor, he deletes much material, adds silly comments, and tries to eliminate most of the critical comments. The section which includes (1) Private Eye materials and (2) Media Lens materials has been effectively sabotaged...

I urge reversal of changes... otherwise ANYONE can effectively sabotage any article.

Kind rgds Antidotto

johann hari article.


The Johann Hari article was reverted and blocked on a version that basically destroyed the critical nature of the article. Furthermore, much self-serving material was added. It is highly likely that the edits were entered by Johann Hari himself... in the past it was proven that the IP address originated at The Independent.

It is a bit of a shame that this type of destructive editing is not blocked... it seems that if someone persists long enough then the edits will eventually be added.


Fos and Fraser Institute

Hi Bob, I wouldn't mind feedback on my recent edits in Friends of Science and Fraser Institute sections.

Also I would like advice on three issues:

- User AI culled back my excessive internal links, which is fine, but I am wondering if it isn't appropriate to have a repeating internal link the first time it appears within each section (e.g. Barry Cooper appears several times in different sections).

- I would like to do more detail on Fraser Institute's ISPM. Could/should that be a separate article? Also, I suppose we cannot quote or cite AR4 Second Draft? (This kinda means fighting with one hand tied behind one's back, at least until the release of the AR4). Perhaps we can at least paraphrase the sections cited already in Fraser ISPM?

- Tim Patterson has edited his own page. I was thinking of keeping some of his claims, but attributed as third party quotes, as well as restoring some removed material. Is there a SW policy about this? As an editor can you reprimand him for editing his own page?

You can answer me on my page, or e-mail me at daveclarke at Thanks in advance! --Daveclarke 17:07, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Thanks for the feedback.

The issue with the AR4 Draft is that one is not supposed to cite or quote draft versions; they are produced to get reviewer feedback. The Draft versions are no longer even available from IPCC now, but have been archived at and maybe elsewhere. That didn't stop the Fraser Institute though. (I do have my own copy of the AR4 draft). Meanwhile, the final AR4 will not be released until late April; it is undergoing proofreading, layout and updating with 2006 data now.

Despite FI claims to the contrary, the ISPM contradicts the main findings of the AR4 via the magic of selective, misleading quotes and citations. Some folks at are pushing the envelope with minimal quotes from the AR4. My suggestion is to paraphrase FI cited sections of the AR4, without actually citing them myself (the citation would be in the quote from the ISPM). I guess I would have to work up an example for you, if this is still not clear. --Daveclarke 11:52, 16 February 2007 (EST)

I've cut back Tim Patterson's page and am watching it - so far, no reaction. I've also made a lot of updates on FoS. The section on Funding (as well as the U of C section) contains some material from e-mails and conversations with the following individuals: Dan Thorburn of the Calgary Foundation, Roman Cooney of U of C, and video director Mike Visser. In all cases I identified myself to them as a contrbutor to Strictly speaking, though, I can't reference these statements, at least not until the media or blogosphere catches up to this story. I hope that's OK.

And in my opinion, the story is a blockbuster: Tax deductible charitable contributions, largely from the oil and gas industry, were funneled through the Calgary Foundation and University of Calgary, and used to finance an anti-Kyoto radio ad campaign, targeted at key Ontario ridings in the 2006 Canadian election campaign. Moreover, this was done, to all appearances, in flagrant violation of Canada's law on third-party election advertising; the Friends of Science Society did not even register as a third-party advertiser and appears to have broken the rules in other ways as well. These particlar dots have not been connected together before, as far as I know. --Daveclarke 12:29, 24 February 2007 (EST)

SW: Glad to be of help

Thanks for the welcome. Glad to be of help. I've been out of the country for a while so in my rapid efforts to catch up I've been seeing what SourceWatch has. Must say you've done a great job. I'll try and help where I can. Cheers --AdrianKitch 17 February 2007 (EST)

when are you going to deal with this?

johann hari article (1) absurdly adulterated and (2) blocked. If you are not going to do anyhting about it, it is best to delet the whole thing.

NSW Minerals council website stuff

bob, you moved that stuff that I put up on the NSW Minerals Council, but didn't link the two pages. was that interntional?--naught 00:42, 6 March 2007 (EST)

Reason for edit

Well, it seems she's really not affiliated with the Ariel Center for Policy Research. She's not listed among its consulting "experts;" [9] I searched the Ariel website for "Alyssa A. Lappen", in the search field on the same page of experts [10] and there's not a single mention of Lappen; and the "Authors and Associates" label looks like it refers to a list of authors for Ariel's journal [11] -- not to Lappen specifically.

Also, a fair number of authors listed among the "Authors and Associates" look unaffiliated. Retired colonel Norwell De Atkine [12] [13]; editor Tony Blankley, [14] [15] Prof. Francisco Gil-White, [16] [17] writer William E. Grim, [18] [19], freelancer P. David Hornick [20] [21] and so on. But others like Ze'v Wolfson [22] [23] look like they're connected to Ariel.

It looks like SourceWatch should not allow the use of list headlines as confirmation of flimsy assumptions.

Also, by the way, a search of the web reveals very quickly that Lappen has never reviewed any books by Anis Shorrosh or Walid Phares.


Bob: I don't understand.

Why do you continue to let claim that there is a published magazine?

There is no magazine.

There is no dating service.

There is no Impact America.

CR Newswire is a shell.

Jason Christy is a fraud.

Yet this page supports the scam that was "The Church Report."

I don't understand.


Gary McCullough, Director Christian Communication Network 2020 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington DC 20006


Shield Group Security

Shield Group Security, identified in this ugly story:

David Phinney, IPS News, "My Name Used to Be #200343", AlterNet, April 7, 2007
"An American former Navy soldier and private contractor imprisoned and tortured in Iraq by the U.S. military and falsely accused of "aiding terrorists" warns that our worst fears about Iraq have come true."

cc Artificial Intelligence, Bob Burton, Spacegrit

unblocking article

when is the johann hari article going to be unblocked... nb: the current frozen article was edited by Hari himself, and he managed to remove most of the critical elements. what is the point of freezing it?


ack. It's not loading - I think it may be subscription only... - Spacegrit 15:35 PDT April 18 2007

Needed gun control articles

--Beth Wellington 10:38, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

unblocking article

Hi When is the Johann Hari article going to be unblocked? NB it remained in the edited state entered by Hari himself -- which cut out important materials. Antidotto

The Council as PR firm

Bob., firstly let me tell you that the Pontifical Council for Social Communications, under A-Bishop Renato Boccvardo, is the PR firm within the internet for the papacy.

Secondly that I - on account of wishing to correct what I have here delivered as the prime examples of faith-led censorship online (mirrored extensively) am not only banned from Wikipeia for 18 months- up this autumn, but FOR LIFE from editing 'catholic articles'. Therefore I am unable to do that which you suggest.

Lastly, I again offer to expand this and any article relevant to the particular PR firm I watch, as assistance to right-thinking honest people. I would like to think that you are one. However I also repeat that my experience of faith-led editing, is that it is effectively impossible, due to a group dynamics which has elicited its very own DWEEC website criticism ( nothing to do with me). I also repeat that it would be entirely cruel were I to be made to source all statements in this particular PR firm article whilst you watch your clock and then kill it. So- treat it with the relevance it deserves ( this is a widely refernced contemporary issue as you surely must well know) and treat me with the good faith that is applicable, and all will be for the best. Or not, but let me know. EffK 06:55, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

Hi Bob, you are welcome to delete anything of personal discussions, as you did. I write only if I see a necessity to communicate. I am sorry though when I find a mixture of outright vandals and genuine users jumping on me in such immediacy, whilst I am even building an article.

I see your point about about other articles in here, however having read the guidelines I still think this is more appropriate an organ than Wikipedia. Whether any organ is robust enough to properly report that which I happen to report, is another question, and doubtless out of our hands. I would prefer you retract your threat, and also that you extend your reasoning capacity to see that what I am painting towards is precisely the type of propagandasing that this organ exists to monitor. The particular article should in effect be but one of many inter-related articles concerning the propaganda, which you can now easily check from the G.Seldes links I reffed back there. I do actually understand that this all is heavy , and dangerous , and have always warned anyone using a real identity , to exit the territory entirely. I suggest therefore- in your own best interest, that you ask for all all interaction between us to be 'disappeared' as was earlier done regarding the rabid vandal , who calls himself after me. I advise you thereafter to use a pseudonymn to address me, but that whilst you do you adhere to this organs policies, and especiallly AGF. Now get them to clear all our interaction out entirely, and mind yourself. I expect no reply, and I expect you not to delete the article. I you do, you do, and be it on your own head. Now Bob, go read G Seldes, or not. When you have finished there I suggest you trace the words 'synarchy' and 'australia' into Google, and expand further your evidently appropriate reasoning. byebye EffK 17:19, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

Council etc

Bob, since you want to be pro-active, I'll come straight back to you and say that presumably you, Sir, will not see objection to another page dedicated to the Pontifical Council For Social Communications, another to the actual papal (JPII) instructions concerning Internet information change/war, another to Cardinal Cassidy, another to A-Bishop Renato Boccardo, and lastly another analysing the changes being constantly made to Wikipedia in line with the Council and papal instructions.

I think that you may be repeating within SW an actual slander, by linking to their publishing characterisation of myself , and thus advise you to remove it forthwith. As the legalities of WP decision can be so analysed, I might start with an article containing the legal intricacies supporting that analysis. Thankyou for the encouragement, and please note that your action is actually contrary to the SW guidelines. As to your immediate earlier deletion of my posts to you, I fail to see how that accords with these last. Have a good day, EffK 03:55, 1 June 2007 (EDT) PS you didn't get the point, Sir, that I have been posted a LIFELONG ban from touching, and thus presumably creating, any 'Catholic' articles. The beatification article is the reason. I would have to say that in your actions, you are assuming a great deal, and taking it upon yourself to unilaterally distort the functions of SW. I wonder if other users are so sure that my experiene and knowledge is not rather more important to SW and its purpose than your censorship of the surrounding facts and links. You were of course wrong not to have contacted me as I was sourceing the article, as you were asked, and that point speaks ill of you. EffK 04:02, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Whilst looking for the final defamation, which was the WP 'Signpost's report of the close of the WP EffK case, I discover that Jimbo must have heeded my advice and removed the defamation, as you can rapidly ascertain that whilst the case is on the table for Febuary 2006, it never closes- see for yourself, and take good note , [[24]]. Yep, the Wikipedia Foundation lawyers realised they were publishing a defamation, and really I should thank you Bob, as you see, the link you have placed includes these words, which are more ineradicable! -"has posted..not supported by sources.. conspiracy theories about the Catholic Church". If I had copied that signpost defamation, or if a court were to demand the uncovering of it, there could be an inference of guilt, I imagine. EffK 06:54, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Bob, yep I saved it. but whether you can save your reputaion is another matter. This is clear censorship. Since you assume bad faith and never answer reasonable queries, nor hold to SW guidelines, I must assume that you are a Sourcewatch employee. If you would be so kind as to not delete the 'history' of the article, I could direct a certain intellect whose name is so great that I will not mention it, to that history. Doubtless though, you now will do precisely that. I have to wonder if there are any reasonable editors here who object to you administration. As to your pseudonymity elsewhere, I believe I recognise some connection to paleontology. I have to presume that you have done what you have done for purely Dweec reasons as you so blatantly contradict the entire objective of Sourcewatch. I again advise you that you are in the wrong, and that I am honest, as I produce sources. Good is as good does. EffK 08:35, 2 June 2007 (EDT)

Bobby, yr full of it: you saw full well that the EffK refs were to Nizkor|. So, kiddo, what is one to (th)ink ? Full of EffK 19:25, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

SW: Double redirects

There's a hint to fix double redirects on one of the Source Watch community pages. So I did.
A number redirects of the kind like:
How a bill becomes a Law/III. Sources of Legislation
have no pages that link to them, and can be safely deleted.

It is completely non-obvious how to request that a page be deleted, which is what brought me here. Cheers, Redtexture.

Visits to Evergreen article

Hi Bob... I think that the recent interest in the article on Evergreen International Aviation, Inc. is due to this story, rather than any alleged involvement in extraordinary rendition. Do a few quick searches in Google News and I think you'll agree. So I hope it's ok if I go ahead and tweak the front page to reflect this? Cheers, --Neoconned 09:57, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

Robert McChesney

I forgot to say that in the history of that redirect there lived an article. You may want to revive the article (if you can). Just back up the history one notch. Sorry. -- Redtexture 00:26, 15 June 2007 (EDT)

OK, I'll have a look a little later on or over the weekend - got to finish a couple of other things right now. And thanks for sorting through those ... cheers --Bob Burton 00:41, 15 June 2007 (EDT)

SW: Date formatting

I don't know where best to bring this up. I am increasingly interested in bringing information from Wikipedia, with citation, and I see that the handling of dates will cause <ref> info to need careful re-editing, which I think is needless, and in the long run prevents taking advantag of the same copyright licensing to improve and expand SW appropriately.
Where to lobby that SW conform more closely to WP on dates, and user preferences on dates.
See here: for example: w:Wikipedia:Dates#Dates_containing_a_month_and_a_day.
(I suspect there are other issues like this that are less obvious, on the "closer compatibility" front.)
My short term interest, in the article area is a system of articles that have outlined information not at SW.
See this navigation box for a listing: w:Template:Dismissal_of_U.S._attorneys_controversy.

-- Redtexture 12:52, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

why blocked

why is the bio fro johann hari blocked?

self serving stuff

Hi Bob Good to see that you are taking a stab at the JH article. I hope that you eliminate some of the self-serving stuff that was entered by Johann Hari himself... NB: IP address was from The Independent. Also, it would be a shame if the email exchange were lost or if the details of the previous version exposition of the Media Lens analysis were also cut. It seems that whoever edited this article earlier was keen to remove that -- these were the most critical aspects of the article.

Some of the links moved on: Now are: Kind rgds Antidotto

SW: Speed?


I have a slow connection. Can you give me some tips on how you, AI and the others are able to get so much done at once?

Thanks in advance, James Horn

SW: Minimum stub article content

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the heads-up on internal links.

Also, what is the minimum content for a stub article? Please include a stub article as an example.

Thanks again, James Horn

Posse Comitatus Revert


Can I get a revert on the Posse Comitatus Act article to it's previous SW status? Please see below:


After review I don't think that the Posse Comitatus Act article should be commandeered as a Congresspedia article for these reasons:

1. It was written originally as a SW article.
2. It was written as a documentation of public political commentary occurring at the time, not for upcoming legislative bills concerning the act.
3. It documents Congressional action in the face of that commentary.
4. It would be a good SW resource article for any Congresspedia article concerning Posse Comitatus.

Therefore I'll request that this article be reverted to it's previous SW status.

@ Alex Sweidel


James Horn

   I'm afraid I can't see the point in removing the Congresspedia tag but can see only downside. CP is a part of the SW project. As a general rule, I donlt see a problem having the CP tag added to appropriate SW articles. The benefit of having the CP tag is identifying it to a pool of contributors who work on US political/legislative issues. It may be that there are issues over the appropriate content of the page (such as historical vs current debates) but that seems to me to be more an issue of how material is organised. I'm of the view that it is better to have the page with the CP tag on it and so have re-instated it. --Bob Burton 21:14, 25 July 2007 (EDT) 

Fine, they can chase down all the ref's and do the work writing it up. I won't be contributing any more. I hope they have a clue what they're writing about. PCA is over a hundred years old. I don't see it other than background for the John Warner Defense Appropriation Act for Fiscal Year 2007. They certainly can't do any articles on PCA just being passed. A category include would have been more appropriate.

Have a good one... JH

Oh yeah,

The stuff you wrote in response to my Tobacco heads-up below? That's just what the controversy about Big Brother is all about. Read the article.

US & State Govt's Cash-In on Tobacco


Another twist to the Tobacco Saga is the huge amount US and state govts are getting by taxing without end the least represented group involved, tobacco users. Texas just initiated a $10/carton tax this year representing a 33% increase on the previous cost (cost + taxes). But then, that's your government, stick it to the most defenseless. They're just another part of the "tobacco business".


Jason T. Christy revsions

Dear Bob:

I do not understand the problem with yesterday's edits to

Is this article irrelevant or am I doing something technically wrong?

Associated Baptist Press News: Also at The Baptist Standard: and

Christianity Today:

Gary McCullough, Director Christian Communication Network 2020 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington DC 20006


SW: Talon Swords weaponized battle robot now deployed - meessageCopy

--begin message repost--

Talon Swords - weaponized battle robots deployed


I don't know if this is relevant to you, but the US has now deployed the first weaponized robots onto the battlefield in Iraq

It is the Talon Swords manufactured by Foster-Miller

Some Links

If you are unfamiliar with Iraq Slogger, here are two of their categories you ma yfind informative:

--end message repost--

cheers, --hugh_manateee 16:42, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

cc NC, BB, AI


SW: Just picked-up a new Burson-Marsteller ref

Bob, I know you were once editing this topic, but I am unsure if you were just cleaning it up or if you had an active interest in it. If the former, you probably know who would be best to deal with this ref:

  • "Last week I published an article in Foreign titled "Why We'd Miss Musharraf" that has generated pushback from Benazir Bhutto's political party and the PR firm she hired, none other than Mark Penn's Burson-Marsteller."

    Steve Clemons, "Bhutto Fires Back", Washington Note, September 18, 2007

cheers --hugh_manateee 03:18, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

Bob- I have never started a page before, only edited, so I am having difficulty figureing out how to cite my sources. My goal is to do a longer article (from a research paper I did in college) regarding ballot inititiaves, so I figured I would start with one of the characters first. Do I just create a seperate part to cite my sources? Thanks-

Upload request

Hi Bob, Could you please upload the flight logs for N611C from Flightaware? Thanks, --Neil Conley 02:30, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

Hi Bob. Yea, I've been involved with the 2008 state portal thing but I might have some free time this weekend or next week to add some more really info and formatting to the Bent Rayburn page. As soon as I find out enough real info about him. Feel free to big me about it if I forget because I have other things to do as well. Cheers, Rich Abott, Sunlight Foundation/Congresspedia Intern, Fall 2007

More Info on (dis) The article is much to clean!


WP tags

Hi Bob, That makes sense, and looks good. Thanks! Chadlupkes 09:49, 12 October 2007 (EDT)

No Problem

No problem! -Spacegrit October 12th 2007 15:51

Thanks Bob, I'm a little rusty these days :) - Spacegrit October 16th 2007 9:34 PDT

SW: Article on GreenFacts

Hi, Bob,

I have changed the structure of the GreenFacts Foundation article, made a major update to the section "Summarising Scientific Reports", and made a few more changes. Could I possibly get your feedback on these changes?

By the way, did you receive the two emails I sent you?

Thanks you very much, Jacques (de Selliers, founder and former General Manager of GreenFacts). --Deselliers 17:50, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

SW: In re: Jihad Watch

Sorry to hit-n-run Bob, but I just caught this on a quick scan of changes via the RSS feed:

From the Jihad Watch page:
In September 2006 Jihad Watch became affiliated with the David Horowitz Freedom Center. David Spencer's articles on Jihad appear regularly in Horowitz's Front Page Magazine.

My recollection is that Jihad Watch was founded by Horowitz originally, but I need to check a couple of places for data, for the citations. I'll try to get back with the data and enter it on the page, but no promises...

Also, I've been thinking about writing up some instructional info regarding my experiences with squeezing information out of the GPO Access and Library of Congress' Thomas websites/databases to possibly ease the learning curve of others seeking to get data from them. Where in the Source Watch hierarchy do tutorials like this belong?

cheers --hugh_manateee 01:16, 19 November 2007 (EST)


The S/W Jihad Watch page jives with the wayback machine with the first mention of its affiliation with Horowitz is September 24, 2006, but my recollections are that the affiliation was from the site's inception.

The association is there as evidenced from the first wayback machine listing for Spencer; Decrember 28, 2003

His articles on Islam and other topics have appeared in the Washington Times, FrontPage, Insight in the News, Human Events, National Review Online, and many other journals.

While dissing Spenccer, I'll toss in a reference:

Carl W. Ernst; Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies and Director of the Carolina Center for the Study of the Middle East and Muslim Civilizations, University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, "Notes on the Ideological Patrons of an Islamophobe, Robert Spencer", Spring 2004

This challenges Spencer's scholastic background in Islamic History, and points out that his publishers are known hard right-sided: Regnery Publishing Inc, Encounter Books and The Free Congress Foundation.

The S/W Robert Spencer stub is much too kind, and could use a bit of sprucing up.

I'll keep my eyes open. Let me kmow if you think I should drop any odds and ends on the relevant talk pages, here, or don't bother. I feel lost attempting to edit some of the pages anymore. I need to cram up on the newer editing features and standards.

--hugh_manateee 06:37, 20 November 2007 (EST)

SW: Rollback vs. Revert

Here is one of many examples of the advantages of using the terminology of wikipedia. If various techical terms, and operations, and templates align with wikipedia, then new users fully familiar with one set of terminology don't get confused by the Source watch terms for a familiar action. The momentum is with wikipedia, and my general recomendation is to ride the momentum they create. Several million users, and a couple of hundred thousand dedicated editors.

Obviously a topic freighted with some consequence.

My point on the topic as a refugee from wikipedia, is that people like me will arrive here at Sourcewatch with a set of terminology and abilities that don't quite apply at Sourcewatch, with experimental mistakes such as mine, as they try to understand what's going on here. Cheers,
Redtexture 22:32, 2 December 2007 (EST)

The International Centre For The Study Of Radicalisation

Steps have already been taken against SourceWatch. You will notice that SourceWatch's entry of the International Centre For The Study Of Radicalisation does not appear on Google anymore. It's been taken care of that the entry on Google of the ICSR and all its personnel will not appear on Google no matter how much you and all the others write about the organization. In fact do your worst. The reality is that no matter how much you write you won't be able to get the pages back on Google. Please note Mr. Burton I've not vandalized any page nor written any abuse. I look forward to hearing from you or any other editor ;) --PR Newman

Re: PR Newman's Comment

Wow, PR! It certainly sounds like a 'radical' expression of your intent to engage in an unlawful activity to me. Of course, if anyone were to assess a dollar figure attributable to your role in causing financial loss, well, that would entitle them to seek civil recourse against you. But hey, this is probably all just fun and games for you anyway, right? --Gospelnous 20:29, 5 February 2008 (EST)

SW: Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act of 2007

Similarly I suspect, I noticed someone has plastered a too gaudy table at the above mentioned page. I attempted to edit its removal but it appears hidden. Your help, please? --Gospelnous 20:29, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Update: I'm currently communicating and addressing this issue, with one of Congresspedia's assistant managing editors. Thanks for your help. I'll keep you posted regarding any significant developments. --Gospelnous 11:37, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Re: John Rednour

Hi Bob,

In regards to your comment, I'm not sure whether it's John Rednour Jr. or Sr. For his support of Clinton, I got the information from Illinois_2008_presidential_primary_and_superdelegates. I'm not sure what the source there is.

Flan 06:06, 17 February 2008 (EST)

SW: Heads Up Bob

I allege bias in the Cato Stub.

The Indictment

I haven't tagged Binarybits yet. I felt it best if I gave you a bit of lead time first.

Thanks Bob, I saw your note to binarybits and the reply, when I first ran into the Cato Changes about 1 1/2 weeks ago. I know I can go right over the top, and wanted to let you know what I was up to. At the very least, it also provided me the opportunity to post some Time Magazine Archives links to a few relevant stubs on data I've been researching there over the last couple of months. Now that Time has completely opened their archives to all, it is a tremendous reference site that should not be overlooked.


--hugh_manateee 19:06, 25 February 2008 (EST)

re: Harding Institute for Freedom and Democracy

Bob, thanks for cleaning up those pages and adding the new info on there. As you can see, I'm still pretty new to SW - I've been using it as a resource for awhile, but only now decided to get off the sidelines and contribute. thanks again,

--kwah 13:46, 27 February 2008 (EST)

Bob, yes, that's odd about the Harding Inst. I don't know any more about it than you do - I just stumbled into the website the other day through a Technorati thing on M. Thomas Eisenstadt. I found his blog first, and then the institute. But I'm wondering if there's no links because when they had that crash maybe they had to change their URL? Who knows. Either way, it seems to me to be not much of a think thank - probably one of these small vanity operations based around this Eisenstadt guy. I've seen a few like that around. (ie. Daniel Pipes and his Middle East Forum)

SW: thanks Bob

For the Cato rewrite. I would have been fairly hard on them in the civil liberties section, and to some degree, this would have been undeserved. Please do no remove or relocate the Independent Institute data on the talk page though, as I intend to relocate at least some of it over to that stub, and it's a hell of a lot easier finding it there, than on my hard drives/DVD archives at some point in the future.

cheers --hugh_manateee 08:36, 29 February 2008 (EST)

SW: too many irons in the fire

Bob, apologies for not getting back to yo sooner. I'll check the Cato article, and pull some sourcing for quotes, I revisit this note later this evening.

While waiting for my sluggishness, how about a bit of comedy from the past?

Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. It's important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.
GW Bush, "President Bush: Information Sharing, Patriot Act Vital to Homeland Security", Buffalo, New York, April 20, 2004

I need to get a video capture card to I can easily convert RealPlayer streaming video to a static file. I'm thinking about an external, to facilitate its use in my next computer upgrade too. Any suggestions?

--hugh_manateee 15:28, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

Re: Refs

Got your note. Will do. --Sheldon Rampton 17:38, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Front groups

hi, Bob,

Just noticed your moving 'red link' front groups from the article to the discussion page... I think it's worthwhile to keep them all listed, as long as we know they're really front groups, whether or not there's a SW article on them.

Perhaps a future citizen journo ask / barn raising idea would be to go through the list, confirm each as a front group, and create stubs on each?

Diane Farsetta 16:07, 24 March 2008 (EDT)


Hi Bob finished.

Thanks --PA03 22:55, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

Thanks much!

Hi Bob Kaethin, Meilin, and I are all working and we opened a chat session on Campfire. I sent you a message about joining in. --Tednace 17:00, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

I had no clue what I was doing in that regard... not so good with tables. ;) Thanks! Queerbubbles 17:07, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

Added members

Hi Bob - I added the full list of ACCCE members. There are certainly more of these that link to SourceWatch articles by slightly different names. I didn't clean it up yet. I'm wondering if you think this is too much "red." (i.e. too many stubs?) Is it better to link to the companies' external websites when we don't have the articles?

Join Campfire chat?

I'm repeating this message because I stuck it in the wrong place up above... Hi Bob Kaethin, Meilin, and I are all working and we opened a chat session on Campfire. I sent you a message about joining in. --Tednace 17:03, 8 May 2008 (EDT)